Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Time in the business does not signal expertise. It just signals how long you've been doing something. You can have a business for 20 years, do absolutely nothing. That does not mean you're good at what you do. The first initial subconscious thoughts you get, they shape your opinion, they shape your bias, they shape your actions. Right. It's psychology. Like I was saying before, it increases the intention of the conversations and then it just increases conversions more than anything.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Welcome to the Entrepreneurs Logbook podcast. I'm your host, Zachary Bernard. You can find me on Social at its Zach B. In each episode, I bring on experts from various industries for you to learn about their strategies and insights driving extra business growth. Today we're joined by Carson Spitzke, founder of Spits VR, a firm that helps entrepreneurs and fast growing businesses land media placements and press coverage in top tier publications to build credibility and authority in their market. Carson is a three times Amazon bestselling author and a contributor writer for Entrepreneur. So he doesn't just understand how to get clients in the press, he's been in the shoes himself. Carsten, it's great to have you on the show. Welcome aboard.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Thanks for having me, Zach.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Cool. Well, this is really a business entrepreneurship podcast. One of the things I always like to ask anyone that comes on this show is if you had to like rebuild your company from scratch, knowing everything that you know today, what's kind of the thing that maybe you would do differently that a lot of entrepreneurs get, like totally wrong.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: It's really just not doing enough volume.
So like the framework that I came up with, because I did technically get back into PR a few months ago, we ran this company from 21 to 24, took a break, started a different company, came back to PR back in November. The big thing is validating what you have for the market. The easiest way to do this is just to reach out to as many people as possible. If your solution is something that people want, you will get yeses. But you're going to have to do a lot of volume to do that.
So outbound LinkedIn is going to be your biggest friend for this. And you just want to make sure that you're getting the right people interested because you can get people interested in almost anything. But it doesn't matter if they don't have an issue they want to solve, a desire they want to hit, or if they don't have the funds to purchase that solution. So really getting validation on the first part is the big thing.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Yeah, and I feel that's so crucial. Like volume is a Big thing. And a lot of people forget. Some people are just going to go ahead, they're going to do some market research. You can see, oh, we're going to do some research. We're going to use ChatGPT, Claude, do research for like two weeks, see if something works. But what you can do is you can literally just send a lot of volume, get direct feedback from, from your market a, B, test messaging, see what performs better and then you can optimize your offer. And it sounds like a lot of people just disregard that. They just go do the market research route, the traditional route. And what you're saying is just do volume, see what works better and just double down on what's like performing.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no, exactly. Like a big thing is it is doing as much volume as possible. Like if you're doing email, I see posts every day. It's oh, I sent a couple hundred messages, no one replied positively. Well, you don't have enough volume to know if it's an email issue, a way you're sending the email issue or what you have isn't validated. Like you want conversations as quickly as possible. You can even offer free stuff in exchange for their feedback on it.
Like for example, for you that might be getting someone on a podcast for free. Right. Albeit it is going to take a bit of work and probably a bit of money to do. But you can validate based on the interest whether people are serious or not in accepting your offer and then continuing after.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Smart. I like that. So you can test what works and then just optimize and adjust based on that. Cool. I love that. And I think that's probably something everyone should be doing when they're starting their first company. But I'd love to shift gear a little bit and dive into to more like with your company. I'm obviously in like the podcasting PR space. You've been in the PR space for a little bit longer than I have. And I'd love to understand for anyone in the audience that hasn't gone through the the process of like looking at getting in the press, getting media, I mean there's so many misconception where a lot of people think like, oh, like it's only the major companies that can get press, which in some capacity the bigger companies are typically going to get more press. But that's not to say that middle market, smaller businesses cannot get press. And I'd love to understand when a business owner comes to Spitz pr, what does that like process look like from like day one to actually landing that first placement.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: Yeah, before day one. It's. It's pretty similar to what you would do, Zach.
It's narrowing down where you can get them featured, like where their story looks to be aligned. Right. Like, for example, we get a lot of companies that work on AI, right? And right now, AI is a super hot topic. And if, for example, a manufacturing company that uses AI and is AI focus, if they come to us, we can get them a lot more coverage than just a normal manufacturing company because it is a hot topic. If you're looking at it for yourself, you want to evaluate and think of it as, why would someone care about what I'm doing? Or why would they care about me if they did not work for my company? Like, who cares? If you want someone to care about your company and things that only you care about or that are apparent to them when they're buying, that's a bit of a different process. You can look at guaranteed placements, opinion pieces, podcasts to share that message, but if you're looking at PR from exposure, getting as much eyeballs and market share of those eyeballs as possible, you are going to want to have to create a good story. And that might mean from day one, that might just mean building studies, grabbing data from customers that you can pitch out to journalists that are actually relevant.
Whenever we are done strategizing, though, what we see is if we're doing earned media, earned media, pitching out to journalists, podcast hosts, things of that nature. Yeah, what we're typically doing is we do prefer starting with a press release that's just a little bit easier to pitch and flesh out to a journalist.
Assuming that the press release is good, the news angle is good, you should get coverage from it. If not, you test, you iterate, you go again. And from there, it's just building up your presence, finding the next piece of the strategy. Another big. Do you do it? Do you do. Do you do a fair amount with, like, Google presence for your clients, Zach?
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah, we do a couple of things. I mean, podcasts to help with that, but yeah, yeah.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Like if. If the business is a bit younger or in certain spaces, like info or coaching or consulting, they're buying the reputation of the owner. And because they don't have as big of a brand so far, you can focus very heavily on Google presence. So for you, that might mean getting them on podcasts. Right. And then their name has, like, Spotify, it has podcast episodes, has videos of their clips popping up when they research them. That's going to help buyers have no like and trust and make them feel like a safer option. You can do the same thing with PR articles. And that's typically the first step we look at. All of that is like owned media. It's your message, right? You're controlling what you're saying. You're not necessarily, you know, you're not necessarily going through an unbiased journalist lens. It's what you want to say about yourself and your company.
But after that, once you get that, it really depends on how much legwork a story has and how much you can integrate into the current trends for what coverage you can do after.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And one of the questions I was a little bit curious to hear your take on is oftentimes you're gonna have like some new startup companies are like, hey, we're trying to get awareness, we're trying to get exposure towards your company. But like, hey, we are literally just starting the company. We don't have too much traction. And in my experience there's like two scenarios. You can either have a serial entrepreneur that has started multiple companies and then you can leverage the fact that they built companies as like a credibility or like leverage point. But for, for the companies that are just startups, they're just starting things out, maybe they, they don't have like that previous like entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur, like founder background. What would you typically like recommend them doing? I know you mentioned like a press release, like figuring out your strategy, making maybe studies to make it more relevant to journalists, but I'd love to hear if you have any other additional input on that.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: Usually like the big thing we have seen and the younger companies, they're not really too concerned with brand. It's how does this tie back into sales that will you see? Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Oh definitely.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: So for them it is usually Google presence at that stage. Like if, for example, if you're a consultant, right? And even if you have a good presence and you're talking to a mid market, enterprise level company, they're comparing you to what, how does this guy stack up against McKinsey in the big four companies, right? Like, are these guys a big enough difference? Do I feel confident enough that I can justify hiring them? Right. And for that, the biggest thing is what is, what's AI going to say about you? What's going to pop up when people do their research?
So it's really just reverse engineering your sales process and your unique selling points. Like for me, a unique selling point is Google presence, research, familiarity, right? So for me, I want to embody that on podcasts and PR articles. That I do for myself. But for clients, you want to take that same thing, put them on third party posts. Like Reddit is a really good one. We use crowd reply to kind of have comments go out on relevant topics where it's completely naturally written in real accounts. You can do podcasts like this where you can kind of talk on what you want, turn those into blogs so GPT can find them. And then you just want to do a handful of small articles so that they populate and show up on Google. And you want to have like your entire sales process and selling points on there so that when a prospect goes to read about you, they are able to find it and at least resonate with that. Same thing with GPT because GPT takes a lot more stock on publications and then Reddit and then third party social reviews and then your website.
So you want as much out there as possible so that you can say like, so that AI can say that I recommend working with this guy. They're not risky. Here are the downsides to working with them. But they're fine that you want that to be the result. The normal result for a young company is like, these guys are too new, they're untrusted, they're risky. So you want to get away from that as quickly as possible.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: I love that. So like a lot of like the, the startups, brands there should be shifting their, their focus around. Like hey, we, we are like playing the long term game. We want to make sure that we are investing in building our presence. So when we have potential clients, partners, investors, when they're looking at us, they can see that we know what we're talking about, we're legit. We're not going to run off to Mexico with their money or anything like that when they're making like that comparison to the bigger firm. And I mean when you're a startup, it's all about credibility. If I see someone that started their company two months ago, I'm maybe not going to feel too confident working with them. But someone's been in the space for 10, 20 years, I know that they probably know what they're talking about.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: Well, even if it's two months, if you found that they've made a huge push in two months, then you're going to have confidence that they're moving super quickly.
Like, yeah, time in the business does not signal expertise. It just signals how long you've been doing something. You can have a business for 20 years, do absolutely nothing. That does not mean you're good at what you do.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, that's a very good point. Reshifting my perspective on that, I love that. And one thing I'd love to understand is a lot of people, they think about and you touch onto this a little bit, but I'd love to see if we can dive a little bit deeper into that. Because a lot of these business owners, they, they understand like, PR on like, some level, but they haven't really connected the dot between a, like an article, a press feature, and like, what it does directly to, like, their sales process.
Some people, they're like, okay, I mean, it's. We want direct sales. Like, how is a press feature going to get a sales. But they need to, like, shift that a little bit. So it's not always about direct sales, but it's also about the, the sales process that you talked about a little bit here.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Yeah. The big thing is that whenever you receive some type of email, like see some type of ad, what are you typically doing? Are you just gonna blindly opt in? Or if you like the idea, are you gonna, like, shop around?
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Oh, I'm gonna shop around. I'm gonna make a bit of research in the first place to see if I should even want to work with this company before I give them my phone number and get ringed every single, single day by them.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: But yeah, I know exactly there. There's friction on every point of the sales process. It is a battle subconsciously or consciously to where you are for that. It's very rare in today's market that someone is going to be at the point where it's, wow, you nailed this problem perfectly. I don't care who you are. I want you, I want to pay you right now to solve it. That's very rare. Like for me, whenever I get an email, if it looks enticing, I'm going to look them up to see if they are legitimate in some way, shape or form, if they' the people to do it. If they are not, then. And if it's something I want to buy, I'm just going to keep going about my research. Right. Or even if I opt in and give them my information or reply or reach out to them, I'm not going to have as good of a perspective.
And yeah, the nice thing about human psychology is that the first initial subconscious thoughts you get, they shape your opinion, they shape your bias, they shape your actions. Right. Like today, and this is not a good, good thing for me to say, but I was on a call today with someone that has historically kind of like wasted a bunch of time So I tried to get out of this, but my default mindset was this person is going to be a bit of a time waster.
If people are getting those assumptions where you're having to battle back from it, then it's not going to put you in the driver's seat for the sale. You might get the conversation, you might get the info, but their intention to buy is not as good.
And a big thing is most buyers haven't heard of your company before. That goes in every market for virtually every single company out there.
So the big thing is how can you become as familiar to them, as trusted to them as possible? Right. There's a. There's a lot of ways to go about this. You can create a bunch of content, whether that's podcasts, YouTube, LinkedIn. And as they see that, they start to think, okay, this guy's an authority in the space. He knows what he's talking about. You can also.
That takes time, though. You can strap onto these large publications like the Forbes, the Inc. The entrepreneurs of the world, where they have already built a brand. They are well recognized, they are well trusted in the space.
Granted, the type of PR you do and the type of publication you do, it does make a little bit of an impact because there is some stigma if you do PR the wrong way and it can harm you rather than help you. But, yeah, more than anything, it's just giving someone a subconscious link that you are impressive, have high status, and that you know what you're doing.
Basically, it just, it just makes everything else work more than anything.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And you, you talked about, like, the publication, maybe, like, some of them are not going to be like the best association from like a reputation standpoint, everything. So you want to, you want to be like a bit careful when you go about which publication you want to get in. And that kind of brings me to another point that I have. So with pr, I mean, for anyone not familiar with the PR space, there's really two types of, like, coverage. You can get advertorial or you can get editorial. And obviously the difference, Advertorial. It's an ad. You're paying for it. Editorial, organic link organically. And for anyone that's like, hey, we want to get some pr, we want to get some media attention. What would your recommendation be when it comes to like, hey, we want to just start, we want to go at it. Should they be looking directly at getting some advertorial to get their wheels in the motion, or should they be strictly doing, like, editorial? I'm assuming it depends on the company, but I'd love to like understand if you have a perspective on that.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: It depends on the use case more than the company, in my opinion. And like the story.
The big thing is you don't want to go too small. Like I have seen a lot of businesses are like, oh, I got invited on this podcast. It's like five viewers. I'll go on it. No, we shouldn't, because that is going to harm your brand if that's the only thing they see on you. If they see a podcast that looks super unprofessional, yours is good. But if they see something that looks unprofessional or they don't like what they see, or your camera quality looks horrible, I did this in 2021, it didn't help me. But if, for example, like your camera quality looks like garbage, then it is going to harm you. It is not going to help you. You'd be better off doing nothing. And the fun thing is that when you have something that's perceived as bad on you, it takes a lot more work to replace it with positive things, both to push it down from Google and and to change what someone's pre established thought patterns are. So like doing super small publications, doing that free USA Wire article that you got offered might actually harm you more than it helps you. Same thing with podcasts. But the big thing is you have to understand that if you are a solopreneur and you have nothing on you, you should not be on Forbes. Like just flat out, unless you are featured on Forbes for something really, really relevant, you are not going to be seen as thought leader on your subject matter because you have not earned it. Right. The purpose of PR is to amplify where you're already at. And the purpose of a PR agency is to max out what you can get. Like the average financial advisor does not deserve to be on Wall Street Journal. Right. Because even if you have a super relevant topic that you can quote on, there's going to be someone that they like better to quote because they are seen as more of an expert than you. And if it looks inorgan, people start to have questions and they have doubts and then it doesn't add to your credibility either. So it is partially building up your brand.
At the same time, you have to make sure that you look like you actually earned it, whether it's you pitching to a journalist or using a PR firm's connections.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So you want to be conscious about the approach that you take. You don't want to like Shoot for the star when you haven't even been on like the smallest like middle, like tier, maybe tier 2 type publication, podcast media placement or anything like that. Because the direct assumption, if I go, I look up someone, they don't have any information, I see a Forbes feature, if never heard of them in my life, the first thing I'm thinking is okay, they probably paid for this. Like they, they probably paid for it. Probably not an editorial authentic piece. And I feel that that can hurt you. Like the, one of the thing people might think is like, oh, if I'm in Forbes, that's great. Like that's amazing. Like people are going to see me, they're going to think that they obviously know what I'm talking about.
But you can be affecting your brand if you don't do it carefully. And that's something I was a little bit curious because then we talked about like Forbes specifically and that was going to be like one of the question side for you because there's a lot of people that are a little bit skeptic. I mean we've both seen like the Forbes 30 under 30. Everyone like on that list is going like jail. That's like the joke that you see like everywhere, which I think is like hilarious.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: That's just the tech space, literally.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: But for like anyone that's like skeptic, they see like a Forbes feature, they think it's more like a vanity play. What's the actual like downstream effect on like the business? Because we can obviously tie that into like the, the close rate, the pipeline, pricing power. Like what moves the needle, like what happens when PR is actually done right. Because a lot of people do it incorrectly. And I know you teach your clients how to do it correctly.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's psychology. Like, like I was saying before, it increases the intention of the conversations and then it just increases conversions more than anything. If someone is like, people are always going to be skeptical. It's just how many people are skeptical if like 10% of people are skeptical and will not opt in because of that. If you eliminate that objection with a Forbes feature, you're going to get a higher percent of people opting in, a higher percent of people showing up, a higher percent of people in a frame of mind to buy. A higher percent of people that feel confident in buying. So it is going to give an uplift on their marketing and sales. KPIs. Like for example, we had one company, we worked with their LA based, we put them on LA based publications. They put the logos on their mailers they saw a reduction, 14% cost per lead reduction on their mailers and ads and they spend multiple six figures a month on those channels. So for them that is a five figure per month lift in just decrease in cost per beats, which is awesome for them.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: But same thing, like if you're, if you're in more of an enterprise setting, it's giving justification for your champion to maybe put their ass on the line so that they can defend you to their board, to their cfo, to their department head, and they will have confidence in doing so. Because one question that gets asked at that level is would you put your job on the line for this? If it's a no, then they're going to go with the biggest option if all options are deemed somewhat equal. So it's making sure you're perceived as the best possible option, whether it's from a first glance perspective or from a deeper due diligence perspective.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's obviously like different ways to leverage PR based on what you're trying to accomplish, where you're at and everything like that. But on like the sales process side of things, because that's something that I feel like a lot of people like, okay, I got pr. I put the as you know, better on like my website, like what's next? Like what, what, what else can I do? And I'd love to like understand if there's a, a more like strategic approach. After you get the pr, how do you actually use it? Because I feel that's a big question a lot of people ask here.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: There's two ways. There's sales enablement and then there is generating opportunities from it. Sales enablement just means that you're making it as visible as possible.
Personally, whenever we do a guaranteed placement for a client, they're usually an editorial. So we control the topic. So we want it to be something that is going to be relevant to send out to a client, like a relevant topic, say to the market issue. Objection. That they bring up to you that you can put on a third party publication that they will deem as relevant and worth reading. That's going to be a value add. No one wants to read an article about how great Zach Bernard is. If they're in the sales cycle, they don't really care. Well, maybe there are some industries where it makes sense, but not all of them. Yeah, so it's, it's really just making sure it's visible, has a valid reason to be visible. Logos news section, making sure that it shows up on LinkedIn, Google, everything else putting it on your decks definitely helps. Any other marketing material that's client facing definitely helps too. I personally like doing publication plus like a small quote like you do Forbes like and then you do like great marketing agency quote, end quote, if that's what's set.
And the other thing is just using it to generate opportunities as well. The nice thing with PR is that yes, short term you want to look at it as sales enablement and how it helps there, but long term it is building up a brand presence. Right? So if you're on like an Inc. Magazine or a Business Insider or a Wall Street Journal, you are going to be seen as a thought leader and someone worth talking to. So you can get on bigger podcasts which have more visibility, which makes people more familiar to you. Maybe for example, it's building up your brand so that you can get on the biggest stages in your conference so that those people see you as an authority and you can pitch them and talk about your stuff to them specifically. Yeah, the doors are wide open. But, but those are the biggest use cases we have seen. And this applies across the board to sales, marketing, recruiting, partnerships and investor relations. All not, not, not equally, but similarly.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean I think it's always interesting. I mean even like the recruiting front, not everyone thinks about that. But if you build like a good like founder, like brand people see on LinkedIn, they like what you're about, then you're obviously going to get more better talent that will want to like work with you here.
But just like wrapping things up, going back to, I'd love to have some like actual like feedback insights for like anyone that's like, hey, we, we have a company, we've been running some marketing, we've been running some ads. We do like a bit of outbound, but we're looking for that extra touch to like, hey, we want some pr. Like we read about it, we saw like they can be very helpful.
Is there maybe two, three bullet points or a little like piece of advice that you would have for any brands, companies when they're like, hey, we want to, we want to get some pr, but we're just not sure how we should start or how we should go about it.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Do you mean in terms of them doing it themselves or what they should consider before they bring someone on?
[00:25:03] Speaker B: I would say both actually. Like if there's anything they should be considering or before they start doing it themselves or maybe if they want to hire someone else like a PR firm.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: So the big things we've seen, if you're doing it on your own PR off the rip.
Like I would use something like quoted Haro or featured dot com. Those are good publications. The reason why you'd want to do something like that is because those are journalists posting their queries, stories they're already writing, stories they're firmly committed to publishing and they're looking for sources to answer questions. That's the easiest way to get featured. It's not the most impactful coverage you will ever get because you're most likely going to get mention and a couple words on you. But it is very low hanging fruit that you can fill out almost instantaneously same day, spend a couple hours on it. If you get some coverage and you can run with that to hit your goals, just do it. If not and you need to do more then what a lot of PR firms do is they either have their internal connections where when you speak with them they're going to pitch you out and see if it's a good fit. If you don't have that, then the big thing is basically just emailing people to find those placements. We use tools like Clay to basically identify and validate emails and contacts of journalists. It is rather expensive, but it is the easiest way to get a niched down targeted list.
And from there you do want to pull what they have written on recently to establish what their coverage is to determine if they're a relevant person to pitch and, and if they are relevant, how you can weave your story and what you do into what they're already writing on in similar topics to that that gets you the highest level of success at scale. It's way better to narrow down and pick a list of 50 journalists rather than just 200 or 300 or 5,000 journalists to pitch. Less is more if you're more relevant because if you're actually pitching with your name and your brand, if they don't like the pitch, then you're kind of screwed. Because journalists, you can pitch them again and again. If your pitch is not relevant, you're kind of screwed. But if it's relevant and it's just not the right timing or they're not accepting new pitches, they're generally not going to have an issue with you emailing them and you can email them again in a couple months. Right? Assuming that your pitches are still good and relevant. So, so yeah, the big thing is just at that scale, making sure that you're managing your own reputation properly. I, I've seen a couple agencies where they will send thousands of emails per day just to Anyone that will feature them and then they will vet the opportunity after they've gotten a yes from them. That's not really the way to do that because it kills your reputation, decreases the odds for everyone that you will get coverage.
And you can always use a PR firm with those relationships because pitching is getting harder and harder and harder just because there are just less journalists out.
But it's a good thing too, because less stories are getting written. The value of independent news coverage only goes up because less people can attain it.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And I want to go back on like one of the first points you made more about like the entrepreneurship side of things. But you talked about like doing like volume, volume, volume. In this case, when it comes to journalists, you want to take more like a value based approach based on what you're saying. Like you shouldn't be trying to send 5,000 emails to journalists and hopefully something sticks. That's not the way to go.
But.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Well, it's more, it's more. You want to find as many different use cases where you can still fit in. Right. Like for me, I can talk on, for example, I can talk on cold email, I can talk on ads because we run ads. I can talk on PR. Right. I can talk on, I'm under 25 and I've made bank with my business. Right. That's a topic right there. It's more about finding unique topics you can pitch yourself to. And with earned media, you don't need it to be something promotional. If you're looking for it to be super promotional, either hire a PR firm where you can do something promotional or run ads or do content or do something else. Because PR in earned media is you slotting in to a narrative a journalist wants to create. You do not have any control, any say over what's happening with the articles. If you're doing an editorial, you have the final say. And the really, the only way to do this is either pitch an editor or use a PR firm.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And then you can always do advertorials, but those are not always the best one to use.
Depending on obviously what your goals are and what you're trying to accomplish here.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: If you, if you want to use it as a sales asset, it's fine. Like for example, if you have a conference and you run an advertorial native to your city and it gets a bunch of views because they're going to promote it, that's fine, that's worth it. Yeah. But if you're going to masquerade and ad placement as earned media credibility that's going to reduce credibility for you. It's just gonna make you look a bit sketchy because if you do black hat stuff like that, what other black hat stuff are you gonna do for your clients?
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah, you wanna be careful when you go about doing that. I love it.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: Well, Carson, thank you so much for coming on the show then, like, any parting thoughts for, for the audience here or.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: No, no, that's really it. I mean, if you're evaluating PR the way I've seen it, as you're starting a company, you need a little bit to start and then as brand becomes a bottleneck and you're seeing some of these issues, then you should take it seriously. Everyone needs PR to some extent. You shouldn't be over investing into it right away. It's going to be something that as you scale up, it becomes a big lever you can pull, just not right away usually.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: I love it. Cool. So for anyone that wants to get in touch with you, I know you're pretty active on LinkedIn. You're like a 3x like author. You pretty much all across the place. Is there any way people should be reaching out to you? Best way to do so.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: Yeah. LinkedIn is a good one website too. Spits. PR.com is a pretty good one to mention.
Those are the main, those are the main places you can connect with me.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Cool. Well, you heard that everyone head over to spitspr.com they are a leading PR firm if you want to learn more about the work that they do. And then true listeners, if you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to leave a like subscribe review. All that fun stuff and yeah, we'll catch you in the next one.
