Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I don't care about more traffic, which sounds insane coming from an SEO person to be like, well our traffic is down 30% but I've never had more phone calls in my business. So the reason the tax attorney sees all of these leads is because in his industry there are no referrals. Because if you get into tax trouble, you're not going to ask a friend, you're embarrassed. So what are people doing? They're going to ChatGPT and Gemini saying that my going to prison.
So my advice to anybody that is just selling an AIO or geo, whatever and says you have to reinvent everything, run away as fast as possible.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Welcome to The Altrumers Entrepreneur's Logbook I'm your host Zach Bernard. You can find me on social at Zack B. In each episode I bring on experts from various industries for you to learn about their strategies and insights driving extreme business growth. Today we're joined by Cameron Libouti, founder of Bidvy Marketing, a seven figure agency that helps professional service businesses think medical practices, law firm finance, financial advisors and real estate professional grow through data driven digital marketing strategies built around actual business outcomes, not just Vanny metrics. But what's actually kind of interesting about Cameron is he doesn't exactly come from like the marketing world. Like before he launched his company he was an engineer designing mechanical systems for Chicago high rises. And it's that same like analytical mindset, like perspective that he can use like reverse engineer problems before even picking up a tool is exactly like how he approaches marketing strategies for his clients today. So he's worked with over a hundred businesses, helped him generate millions in revenue for the people he works with, is a regular speaker on stage two, helping professional service business owner understand how to build marketing strategies around their actual situation. And not a one size fiddle playbook here. Cameron, it's great to have you on the show. Welcome aboard here.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Well, it is a business entrepreneurship type podcast. One of the things I always like to ask to anyone that comes on the show, you've obviously been around the block. To put it very simply, if you had to restart, I guess your company could be even your career, what would you say maybe would be the one thing that you would do differently that you feel some people get totally wrong.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: So as you said, I was an engineer, so networking and human connection was not natural to me. Data analytics, building things, things sitting alone in my thoughts were more natural. Well, that's not a great way to grow your business.
It has, you hinted at it. Obviously we've grown quite well We've always let our performance speak for itself. Where I think we could have grown. I personally could have grown earlier in my career, like prior to being 30, a little bit quicker, if I was more willing to start networking sooner.
I usually don't dress quite this nice for her podcast, but I was at a networking event this morning, so I've been, I've been in. I've been very intentional this year about networking, making those connections and just continuing to, to, to people think networking is like asking for business. And I think the way I've, I've started to learn from people senior of me, it's like, how can you help people? And it eventually comes back around to you.
So just getting out there, you have unique talents that you don't realize.
A, A business connection, networking. We've become good friends of mine. He needed, he needed hearing aids. He had a hearing loss. And he, he knew I worked with audiologists a lot in, like, throughout the United States. And he just said, who's the best audiologist? You know, he had a really, like, unique situation and just so happened that this audiologist isn't too far. She is one of one. And I recommended that to him. Now every time he thinks about anything related to marketing, he thinks of me because, like, I helped him personally, and I would have helped him personally whether or not there was anything else. But these are the types of things in your life that if you're growing a business or starting with entrepreneurship, we, we overlook especially. I don't know exactly how old you are. I think we're not too far in age, but I'm a millennial. We want to just post to social media and have the leads rain down. And we forget that, you know, the most successful people, you don't find them on social media.
You know, like the guys and the women and the guys. Today I was, I think I was probably the youngest person in the room. And these are, you know, partners in law firms and head of HR companies. And, you know, you know, I, I walked out to leave and you see all the cars they drive away. And, you know, I.
20% are active on social media. I think that would be high for this group of people. So networking earlier, getting comfortable doing that, refining how you speak to people, that'll take you a lot farther.
Don't, don't negate, like the service aspect of your business or what you're trying to do or the product, but somebody in your company or in your organization needs to be spearheading that.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with you and I feel Like, I'm guilty of that too, because we launched your company during, like, Covid, where, like, everything was online and we basically kept it that way. Our entire company is, like, remote. And I feel that's like, one piece of the puzzle where, like, I always try to, like, obviously connect with people online, but in person, I mean, I'm in the middle of nowhere too, so.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: I definitely probably should be traveling a little bit more.
I've obviously have invites from. From clients. Okay, you should come here and stuff like that, but I should probably do doing more. So I'm taking your piece of advice without a grain of salt. I probably shouldn't be doing that too.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: There's levels to it. Like, yes, I've heard that I'm remote. So these types of connections, figuring out how you can have one on ones via Zoom, they don't always have to be via podcast. Obviously, I am lucky in that I live in Chicago land area, but I made a connection with a CMO a couple months ago, and she's like, which events are you going to? And she's in Texas. She's, you know, she's flying to the northeast and she's flying. And so, like, there are levels to networking.
I would, you know, try to do local, refine who you are, know the words you are. Obviously. Zach, you said, oh, he used to be an engineer. Like, that didn't. That's not an accident that you said that. Like, I have refined that over, you know, seven years of, like, what makes people's eyebrows raise, what engages with them, and then get ready to say it and, you know, 60 seconds or less when you start meeting people and then just be curious about what they do and who they help and. And yeah, I'm still getting better at it, but that would definitely be my adv to early entrepreneurs, because I don't
[00:06:44] Speaker B: think we've had a lot of people mention not. I mean, everyone has a different perspective. Like, oh, like, maybe I hired someone faster. I got help from experts. But the networking piece, I feel, is not one that you hear often. And there's definitely a lot of value doing it. I mean, I know we've built referral partners with people, and then directly we've had a lot of business come from them. So it's definitely worth doing here. But one of the things that I'd love to shift gears a little bit, going more obviously your bread and butter. I know we talked about you being like an engineer, but also pretty good at, like, marketing too, otherwise you probably wouldn't be running your company. Here. But a lot of like professional service business think doctors, lawyers, advisors are, they're basically sold on like marketing services before anyone has actually looked at those situation like oh like I need to do this. It's like the, the shiny, maybe not shiny object but in a way, yes. Oh AI, we need to be doing this. And it's a bit similar with like marketing. It's like oh, I need to be doing marketing, I need to be running Google Ads. But it's not always true. I'd love to better understand from your perspective like obviously work with hundreds of clients. Like what does a properly built marketing strategy actually start with? And what are some of like the questions most business owner never actually asked themselves before, like working with you or like any other professional.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: So it starts with an audit. And this is true. So the, the industries you just listed, they don't.
If, if a business is under $10 million a year, even 20 million, oftentimes they don't know what good marketing looks like. When you get to that 20, 30, 40 million, you know, they have an in house, maybe a fractional CMO or they have a head of marketing. They have people that know what good marketing looks like even though that business might not be doing it. And it starts from what like setting a goal where these smaller companies then you might be listening this, you might be thinking I'm not even a million. So perfect. You're at a good spot to think about this now.
What's your end goal? You know, don't just say more business.
Obviously it's more business, but more business. How, who fits you? What type of like what type of financial resources do you have? Time, resources, who's on your staff? These are questions you should be thinking about.
And then somebody like me should be auditing, like what are your opportunities? I, I mean if you have an unlimited budget, my guess is you don't. You found some money glitch that you don't really need a marketing company for. Most people doing marketing are doing marketing because they don't have an infinite money glitch. And so you do have a budget. You all have, everyone has a budget. That's the, the question I hate most is like what are we, like what are we working with here? I don't, I don't know. If you don't know, that's fine. But yeah, then I'm going to try and dial in what that looks like. And it's not.
People think, they think like well he's just trying to price my services so he knows what tier to Put me in. I don't have tiers. I am trying to spend your money correctly. Right. Like, the point of working with a marketing company is to see roi and so you work your way back, like, what are the opportunities? So obviously the two big ones digitally are always going to be paid ads or SEO.
There is a time and a place for both, but oftentimes companies that are coming to me aren't ready for both at the same time. So auditing their competitors, what are the, what's the competition? Knowing where are you losing?
Oftentimes I'm.
Oftentimes they're coming to me thinking, like, what should we be doing? They haven't even thought about their branding or their positioning and we could send traffic or leads and it's going to fall apart. They don't even. Yeah, they don't. They haven't even thought about what's their unique position in their market.
One of the famous ones is the law firms that help everybody. They do all the law firm things. It's like, well, you know, that's not true. And that's going to get really expensive really fast. And so, you know, sometimes there's stages before that. But auditing who you are, where you're at in your company, who your competitors are.
I do. Right. The competitor audit. I, I lay out a strategy that's always where I start.
Depending on how you come into us, either it's a paid audit, it's really extensive, or I'll run. Like for some businesses, they want to just like a quick overview and then really just have the conversation.
And I'll do that as well. I never start with anybody without first auditing their land, their, their location, their industry, who their competitors are.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's like a doctor's giving you like some pills, like meds, without even asking you any questions or testing your temperature, anything like that.
Probably not the right solution. So it's about getting a better understand, like where they're at, what other people in their industries are doing, and then getting like the bigger picture, what will actually perform for them. Because some people, yeah, they're going to be like, oh, let's, let's start doing SEO. Let's start doing paid ads. Because, for example, maybe they went to a networking event and someone was like, hey, you should be doing paid ads. You should be doing SEO, AI, all that fun stuff. You're like, oh, I'm missing out. Like, all these guys are doing all these stuff. It's like, yes, but they're in a totally different industry. Totally different Landscape. This doesn't actually apply to you. You need to start with this, then go to B C, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Yes. Trying to do all the things at once is overwhelming.
You need systems in place. You need practice. Like, you know, I know certain industries are seeing a lot of referrals, partner referrals from LinkedIn. Well, do you have the stories and the case studies? Can you work with a ghostwriter? Like, that's not something we do, but that's a popular service I hear about and people want to jump in and they fail with it and they're like, well, what happens? Like, well, yeah, you weren't prepared to put in the time, the effort. You didn't have the case studies ready. You weren't thinking about, you know, you have to. You can't just hire a ghostwriter. You shouldn't just be hiring a marketing company like you, you know, with us, I try to give direction and maybe the bigger. And the bigger you are, you know, maybe a fractional cmo, if that's not on staff, somebody to help with that strategy and build that out and then partner with somebody like us. So there's different flavors for everybody. But really knowing who you are before you jump in is important.
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's doing like that inner work, but you also need to do it for your company too. Yes, it's an important one.
But touching onto like one thing you were talking about, like SEO, you mentioned like paid ads. One thing I want to talk about because I know you're like a big, like AI guy, like SEO too. Like I see on like LinkedIn posting like these like very long articles. And we chatted about a couple months ago about think it was like OpenAI. Not OpenAI. Forgot what, what was it? Open cloth. There you go. I was getting what it was. Yeah, that was like 101.
I mean, not really relevant to the question I wanted to ask you, but there's really like a lot of noise around, like AI in terms of search, Geo, aeo, basically whatever people want to call it these days. Everyone has a different definition of what it should be called. But again, a lot of people, from what I'm seeing, they're like, yeah, they're being told they need to reinvent their entire SEO strategy. And I'd be kind of curious to hear what's your take on what actually change versus what's just being overhyped and what should professional service business actually be focused on right now?
[00:13:53] Speaker A: So my advice to anybody that is just selling an AIO or Geo, whatever and says you have to reinvent everything, run away as fast as possible.
They are a grifter, like, you know, top tier grifter that likely has failed at other businesses and now just trying to sell the new hot thing.
We, we, when I say we SEOs finally got direction, official direction. Not that Google doesn't lie and not that we haven't been testing this for years now, but we got official direction. I don't know when this podcast will release, but right, right around April 2026, Google put out their first recommendations. And fundamental to whatever we're going to call it, AIO is good SEO. Good SEO is a well structured site. It's understanding who you are, it's, it's talking about your services.
It is doing all of the things that you should have been doing for 20 years. The reason AI is just hot right now. So, so there's, you know, there's two sides to AI. There's the what can AI build and automate? And then there's the AI search side. And so the CEOs and the business owners are all caught up in this AI stuff. So they're now all real, all of a sudden really interested in AI SEO. And so there are calling these people, it's, it's an easy thing to sell.
I was really resistant to even saying we did it for a long time because I knew it was really just SEO at its core. I do now say that we do it. There are some unique additional strategies to it. Yeah, but anybody you know, there were some strategies at the end of last year and I still see them pop up on X, even LinkedIn once in a while. Although the LinkedIn SEO community is pretty tight and they will jump down your throat if you post some of these spammier hacks.
But these techniques that were working last year to kind of shortcut the systems are getting stomped out pretty quickly.
And then I will say you really only have, I'll call it two and a half platforms that really matter for AIO. So you know, at the end of 2025 it was ChatGPT. ChatGPT, they had something like 95 of the AI search market share in October of last year. I was saying like they're going to dwindle fast. And my prediction was by the end of 2026 they will not be the leader. It'll be Gemini, which is Google.
It's going to be really close. But I think, I think the last time I checked ChatGPT from an informational search side I think is down under 70% now with Gemini Having increased touts closer to, you know, 30% of the market share. Anthropic is not used from that site at all, which is Claude.
And then you do see perplexity getting used a little bit. But perplexity is as cool as that product is, it's not as popular as it probably should be.
And so the things that you can do SEO wise, you can throw a wider net. So yeah, we're starting to see social media posts get indexed into Google. Social media starting to get noticed where, you know, Google's had a love hate relationship with meta for a long time.
[00:17:14] Speaker B: You sh.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: If you do care about the AI stuff, posting to LinkedIn, posting to Meta, properties are becoming important. The most important still being YouTube, which people act like this is some new magic thing.
Yeah, YouTube and Google are the same company.
You. YouTube has strongly influenced Google for a long time, but it's now probably the strongest, I call it a citation, the strongest citation for an AI search.
So doing this work is important. The other thing that people overlook, I want to be listed in ChatGPT or Gemini.
Are your customers, clients, patients there.
So for example, when I work with a lot of audiologists, their patients are 65 plus, they're not there. You know, we see maybe 1% of our leads across the country coming from ChatGPT.
On the flip side, we work with a tax attorney. We see almost 40% of his leads coming through ChatGPT.
So you have to think through this.
What is your client path? So the reason the tax attorney sees all of these leads is because in his industry there are no referrals. Because if you get into tax trouble, you're not going to ask a friend. You're embarrassed. So what are people doing? They're going to chat, GPT and Gemini saying, am I going to prison?
And they're leading faster into his business.
He's getting leads from all over the country now because of the work we've done for him.
Sorry. So that's a lot about AI. It's, it's, it's, it is very much still foundational SEO paired with public relations. Like that's, that's like the next layer. But I wouldn't think about it as something completely different. I would think about it as traditional SEO layered with like a public relationship.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: On top of it.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, I feel like a lot of people like, oh, let's just focus just on like the AI or anything like that. It's like you still need to have your basics in terms like SEO to make sure that this works properly. Like it goes in tandem. Like it needs to be together here
[00:19:28] Speaker A: as soon as the professional services, like I want to do AI. Oh and I look at their website, they don't even have profile pages up for their doctors or lawyers. Like you're so far away from even being prepared to get recommend like you. Yeah, slow down, you know, but it, I mean it, I, I welcome it. I think that it's, it's a good change. I think we'll laugh in a few years that you remember when we would Google something and we'd sort through hundreds of different websites. Like you know, the user experience will get better.
Local has its own flavor. I still think people will default to Maps for a while before they start talking to their AIs.
[00:20:07] Speaker B: But you know, yeah, I, I think like if I'm trying to plan a trip, maybe I'm going to use like Chad GPT. But if I'm trying to find more of like a, like a location, like somewhere I want to go, I'm probably still going to use like Google. And I feel like I don't, I'm not fully understanding like how Gemini and everything works. Is it integrated with like the AI overview? Is that from Gemini or that's more like Google's end.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: So Gemini is Google, the AI overview.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: I think it's separate, right?
[00:20:36] Speaker A: It's. Yes, it is separate but the, the underlying LLM, like how that is working is murky and if I've like at points it seems like they're using one and then they're not. Anyway, I think you'll see Gemini starting to get embedded in more places throughout Google Properties because it's more helpful.
I like Gemini for.
I like Gemini because it has less of a personality when doing business searches. Like I just want the data. Like I don't want the fluffy warm chat, your anthropic answer. I want. Just give me the data. So.
But informational searches are all pretty much going the way of AI and then you get down to like navigational searches or transactional searches. We're still seeing a lot of that happen on Google, on Maps and I think there'll be a, there'll be a long time before that switch is made.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: So yeah, and you mentioned like PR because that's interesting because we've had some clients that we've, we obviously do PR where we're like PR firm as well. But one thing that we've been doing for some clients, okay, we're trying to obviously control like what shows up when someone obviously uses searches up your Company name. We want to control that narrative. And like messaging.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: And that's one thing. When you have like PR articles, some, some publication, all of them are going to get indexed by like LM or like filtered through. So we obviously focus on the ones that do. But so when people look up those companies, a lot of these PR articles are being picked up and it helps influence what's being said, which is obviously a little plus for most people that I see working here.
But you talked about the different type of professionals, et cetera. I mean there's obviously going to be local companies, smaller companies, and you obviously work across markets that do look a bit different from each other. From what I could tell, it could be solo practice in a small town versus a multi location group and a metro, like Metro. I'd be curious to understand like how does your strategy change based on like the market size and like the competition? Because obviously not every market is similar. And what kind of mistakes would you say a lot of owners might make when they try to apply the same approach, like a, like a one size fit all approach.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: So everybody thinks marketing digitally is organizational marketing. And so what I mean by that is they have an organization and I just need to market said organization. And in some situations, yes, there are marketing channels that are just organizational in nature.
I'm thinking like a YouTube or a social media strategy. Very organizational in nature. Maybe you're doing local promotion, organizational in nature. But when it comes to a multi location business, you are, you are marketing every location. So it's organization plus location. And the way I think about that is the gap. So what's the gap between you and your competitors?
And it could go both ways. So maybe you're trying to catch somebody or maybe you're trying to analyze like what type of lead do I have and what are they doing to catch me.
So I'm always thinking about gap costs, gap bridging gaps. So, so if I go into a market with you know, three, four, five locations, who do we have to hold off? How do we have to do it?
Location is weak. Why is it weak? Is it, is, is, you know, more locations in my opinion are better for lead generation. But that does come with more infrastructure costs. It comes with more. Right. These are things that don't fall under my responsibility as a marketer. Falls under your responsibility as a business owner.
You have obviously rent and you have staffing. These are all things that you have to think about.
I just looked at a business for a friend of mine who custom tailor out in Las Vegas and Their one location's doing great and they're so, they're like, this one's doing terrible. And I looked it up. I'm like, well, it's six months old and there's no review. Like, you just think that you just have a good brand. It just, you just open a second location and they, you know, they put the signs out. They, you know, they did the local networking thing, but digitally you can't tell that there's a second location. So I think that's a big mistake of, of as you grow understanding that it goes from organizational marketing to organizational plus your multiple locations. And there's more strategies to it, but from a high level. That's how I think about it.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting because like, yeah, like as you said, like, oh, the brand is here, gonna open up a new market, we're gonna crush it there. But no, you gotta set up your Google business profile. You're gonna make sure that you're establishing those locations. You got reviews. I mean, reviews are probably one of the most important things. People are looking you up, they see zero reviews. Probably going to go to someone else. I know that's what I do. If I see someone do like 10 reviews, popular thing, I'm going somewhere else. I'm assuming a lot of consumers are going to do the same thing.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Yes. I mean if your brand is Costco, you get to just open up a. Oh yeah, like the brand is so strong. It doesn't like this. It's already established. Right. Like you can just pop up a location. But when you're, you know, you're a personal injury law firm, opening a location isn't just going to magically bring business into from a new town. Like there has to be some thought to how are we supporting that location.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah, and I want to go back because I mean, I know you're a data guy. You talked about like, oh, I just want the data when I use like perplexity and everything like that. And I feel a lot of business owners don't take more of like a more like data metrics driven approach. And when it comes to like measuring marketing performance, a lot of them don't. They're like tracking the wrong things. Maybe they're not even tracking them the first place, but they could be looking at the traffic numbers, the impression, the clicks, all that fun stuff. But I'd love to understand from you like what kind of metrics actually matter and like how do you have that conversation with the client who's been like, they have like this belief in Place that like, hey, we need high traffic. That's literally like how we get more success. More eyeballs means more success, which sure can be right. But there's a few components there that make sense.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So you asked a few nuanced questions in that. I. I'll start off with the traffic question. I don't care about more traffic, which sounds insane coming from an SEO person.
I care about bottom of the funnel traffic. So if you are hiring me or my company, I want to know what services generate revenue and then I want to go win those keywords. Are we going to win those keywords in month one? No. Are there informational searches we can be winning on route to that 100.
But the end of the day, the goal is to win your service keywords in your locate in your location. If you're national, you win the service keywords nationally or product keywords, whatever your business is.
And so if you win the bottom of the funnel keywords it is.
It's pretty cool because I've had a couple clients, like I get 4,000 visitors a month, but I don't feel like my marketing's working. You know, they start working with us and we start.
I never try to intentionally reduce traffic, but it happens because it's not a focus of ours. The focus is bottom of the funnel. They'll be like, well, our traffic is down 30%. But I've never had more phone calls in my business. And what's happening, we won. The searches that are going to are closest to the purchase. So if you're familiar with the awareness ladder, there's solution aware people that aren't yet business aware. So if someone types in dentist near me and you win that keyword and you have the reviews, you're going to get that first call.
That feels really good. The part that business owners need to think about and this gets into like a broader audit, you're not probably going to be able to do this on your own as a business owner. But I call it tam. But total addressable market.
You know, I work with people in Manhattan. Their geography, their radius is blocks. I work with people in the middle of Nebraska. They have people driving to their practice an hour away. And so what's the total addressable market? I mean, to be fair, there are more people within blocks of those Manhattan offices than there are within an hour of those Nebraska practices. But the point being is you might only have 200 searches there at the bottom of the phone. That might be it. And. And if you win those 200 searches, you're going, now what? Well, we've exhausted really, you know, the closest to buy leads. We can now start moving away from those to more, you know, wow, what should I do if my tooth hurts? Who should I con like you? You can start going after that type of work. If I'm speaking as if like you're a dentist or something. But you can start thinking about paid ads, you can start thinking about other marketing channels.
Again, this comes back to some of your first questions is like, what does that strategy look like?
I want to win bottom of funnel. There is a, there is not an infinite amount of leads. There's, you know, there's only so many people purchasing or buying or using services in your area. What percentage of that market can you win realistically?
And then, and then move on from there. I will say we are also very focused right now, like the middle. Right. So you know, you have your social media virality, feed the beast, front end, top of funnel stuff, which works by the way. Then you have that middle discoverability, SEO, ao, paid ads.
That is very like once that works, that feels great. That's closest to the purchase. And then you have kind of the after the purchase marketing, which I find a lot of medical practices specifically don't think about that side of things. Law firms, financial advisors, of course, think about that.
But what is, I call that kind of like the flywheel side of it. Like you have these relationships, you have a network now what marketing are you doing on that side of things? So yeah, your question was very focused on the middle piece. It's. But it's, it's all the pieces.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's interesting because I've never thought about it that way. I mean, we've done a bit of SEO, maybe a couple blog posts, nothing crazy. But the way that you're thinking about it is like I feel like a lot of people, they'll just try to like, yeah, we just want to get as many visitors, trying to get as many lead as possible, like top of funnel. And then we'll have like the back end sets. We can nurture people. We'll, we'll call them, we'll try to get people pushed through. But if you aim more for like bottom of the funnel, even if it's a lower TAM or like lower amount of like leads in there, those are going to be people with like much more intent and much more driven to actually the purchase. I mean, for example, maybe this is not a good example, but you could think of maybe an orthodontist which obviously like the ltv. It's obviously going to be a little bit higher than if you just go to the dentist. Could be wrong here too. But if you go like orthodontist near me, you're going to get people that, sure, maybe they're interested, just want to get to the orthodontist. But if you have some more specific, like specific procedure or anything that they want to do, those people are like much more intent. Like they know what they want. It's like, it's like when you're running Google Ads, you're searching for something specific, you have that intent. You can do the same thing with like SEO for example. Try to get those winning bottom of the funnel keywords here. So yeah, I learned something with that because I never thought about it that way and I feel that's probably something not a lot of business owners do.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: From what I, not a lot of SEO people do either, which I, I was talking, I mean one of my good friends give him all the credit in the world. He's a very large marketing company but they do a lot of custom development for 8 and 9 figure, even some 10 figure businesses. So they're local. Like he doesn't think about total addressable market. He doesn't like they know SEO from like a, a website perspective, like structuring, but from like a month in, month out, he's not working with local businesses. And, and I was talking to him and I said that he's like, dude, you got to talk about that way. Mark, I don't think business owners are ever even thinking about, he goes, I been doing this for 20 years and these aren't like I'm in SEO and marketing, but not those channels. I don't, I didn't even think about that stuff because that's not who our clients are. So in the context of him, like that makes sense. But you know, I, a lot of you see a lot of like the, I call it like the gurufication of like marketing. And so you know, you have, you have marketers selling to marketers and they're like, just run my playbook. Like that's a different playbook. Guys. Like that doesn't translate to working with a law firm or a medical practice. Like those are, those are different animals.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I always learn a thing or two when I speak to you, whether it's AI SEO or anything like that. So I do, I do appreciate you coming on the show and I guess one thing I was like to ask you to make it even more like valuable to like anyone listening if you're A business owner, you're like, hey, I want to grow the company. Whether it's like any marketing. I'm like, hey, this marketing thing looks great. We've been doing off referrals the entire lifetime of your company. How should they be? Like, what's going to. Maybe the first three or four steps that they should be looking at before they look at doing all these marketing efforts. I know we talked about auditing, but in all those, it's probably one of the steps that they should be looking at doing.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: I mean, if you're a local business, look up who your competitors are. Get an idea.
If you, if you jump online, let's say you are new, you have no reviews, you jump online, you see a competitor has hundreds or maybe thousands. Like, maybe the best place to put your budget isn't digitally yet. Which. Right. That sounds. People hear me say, like I'm talking myself out of it. Like, yes, I'm. That's not the right place for you.
But we. Goes back to the beginning networking, which, I'll be honest, lawyer lawyers are good about it. Doctors do not want to network. They don't. They just don't want to do it.
Yeah, you got to go. You got to go figure out how to find referral partners. So if you're a specialist, can you find general practitioners that will refer you business? So you can't just kind of stake your flag in the ground and just assume business shows up.
I had this conversation with a optometrist or actually with her brother, but she'll be calling me. She wants to leave her practice and start her own. My first question was like, well, how many people do you think realistically will follow you? Because you. I know who she works for. You can't financially compete with them for a while.
And, and so how are you going to find those patients early? And how many of those patients are going to follow? These are all questions you have to think about.
And then maybe you're in a different place in your career or business. And. And there are different questions to be asked.
But understanding that there's a cost to winning. And every industry, not every, only every industry, is different. Every market within that industry is different. So, like, what we charge in Manhattan is very different than what we charge in the middle of nowhere. Because I have to do more to win. I am very much do what's necessary to win.
I'll never. If you tell me, like, I want to do these things and I want to pay you for it, even though you're telling me, like, it's not going to bring me much additional business right now. Okay. But you need to understand that that's above and beyond today, what you need to be doing as it relates to your budget. And we do get those clients, you know, they come in and. No, no, I want to do all these things. Like, okay, sure, we'll put it all together. I, you know, I'm showing you the data that doesn't support it match support those decisions. But as long as you're on board and I've been transparent with you, then, yeah, sign me up. I love, I love doing everything, but as long as you're in on it too, I'm, I'm okay with that.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. Because I feel so many people have like, certain, like, beliefs and then you have to like, break those belief, educate them.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Maybe you should be doing it this way instead. So part of the game, to put it very simply here. But no, I really appreciate you coming on the show as always. I always learned a thing or two from you and I know that you guys built like a new website a couple months ago or something like that, but if anyone wants to get in touch with you, reach out. What's kind of the best way to do that here?
[00:36:30] Speaker A: So if you go to bidviewmarketing.com all of those contact form messages come to both myself and my senior account manager, Erica. She's in. Great. Incredible. So those will, you'll. If you reach out to us, she'll set up a time for the three of us to meet. If you're serious about, you know, understanding more, if you just want a chat or anything else. I'm pretty easy to find on LinkedIn. I should be better about posting, but you can find me on LinkedIn. Cameron Laboudi. I'm there if you message me. I'm pretty good about responding quickly, but those are the two easiest places to get a hold of me.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: Perfect. But we're going to put them the show notes description, if anyone wants to check that out either way. But you're that everyone head over to bitvmarketing.com if you want to learn more and to your listeners. If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, like, review, comment, all that fun stuff. Reach out to Cameron here and then. Yeah, until then, keep pushing and we'll see you in the next one.
